- EO Charging supplies a turnkey service for automobile fleets, together with all of the {hardware}, software program and repair components of the electrification stack. President and Chief Business Officer John Walsh informed us that the software program and upkeep layers of the stack are the keys to charger reliability.
- Fleets usually overestimate the quantity of energy they’ll must preserve their EVs charged. Detailed modeling within the early levels of a venture, together with good power administration, can assist a fleet keep away from the prices and delays concerned with upgrading a utility connection.
- Completely different fleets have completely different infrastructure wants. EO charging presents month-to-month fee plans primarily based on the variety of chargers, kilowatt-hours delivered, or miles traveled, as a way to handle completely different buyer wants.
Q&A with EO Charging’s John Walsh
How is offering charging infrastructure for EV fleets like operating a web page or a mobile phone community? All of those worthy endeavors (amongst others) rely upon a stack, which is a hip method of describing a system of interrelated {hardware} and software program merchandise that operate collectively.
Some layers of the stack could also be easy, and others could also be advanced. Some could also be seen as commodities, and others could rely upon extremely specialised proprietary know-how. Some could also be set-it-and-forget-it programs which might be anticipated to work easily, and others could also be—for need of a greater time period—a ache within the neck.
In an rising area akin to EV charging infrastructure, it could be laborious for potential clients to determine how the completely different layers of the stack match collectively, and which layers require particular consideration. So as to add to the confusion, the forged of characters is massive, and the relationships amongst them may be advanced—just like the listing of dramatis personae in a Victorian novel. Some firms specialise in one layer of the stack, and others provide a turnkey bundle, offering all of the services themselves and/or subcontracting with different companies.
What’s the most effective course for a fleet operator to steer? Does it make sense to combine and match completely different firms for various layers of the stack, or is it higher to contract with a turnkey supplier, maybe for a set month-to-month value? For some solutions, Charged sat down with John Walsh, President and Chief Business Officer of EO Charging, who defined how the layers of the EV fleet charging infrastructure stack match collectively, and provided some suggestions for purchasers.
Charged: What sort of clients does EO Charging serve?
John Walsh: We do all depot charging, so our goal clients are transit authorities, faculty districts and fleets, akin to Amazon, FedEx, UPS, DHL. Additionally, the truck OEMs which might be beginning to come on-line now—Daimler, Bollinger, Workhorse—we’re concentrating on these as effectively.
The issue on this business is that everybody’s all concerning the cupboard and the {hardware}. That’s the most important problem with charging at the moment—everybody thinks, “Man, if I may simply get that wall field on the wall or get that charger within the floor, I’ve received what I want.” And it’s solely the start.
Charged: You had been previously Chief Business Officer at Proterra, an organization that we’ve written about loads. I for one thought it was an awesome firm, and I used to be shocked when issues turned pear-shaped. What occurred?
John Walsh: What occurred to Proterra by way of the lens of John Walsh may be very disappointing. I left the corporate over a yr in the past, a little bit bit earlier than the storm hit, as a result of I noticed the ship sinking. We went public, we did a SPAC, we had loads of capital that received burned by way of very quick, and…simply mismanagement, I might say, greater than something.
However don’t hand over on Proterra. The corporate was offered in three items—battery programs, chargers and buses—and there are three completely different homeowners now. Proterra had the most effective battery know-how on the planet, and it’s nonetheless the most effective battery know-how. There are loads of firms that can use their battery programs and have loads of success. I believe the Volvo Group [which bought Proterra’s battery business] will prosper by way of the know-how that was given start by Proterra.
Sorting by way of the stack
Charged: For fleets, there are loads of items to the charging puzzle. You could have your individual proprietary software program, and also you provide a full turnkey bundle for fleets.
John Walsh: We do. It’s referred to as a stack, and it’s actually six easy factors.
The primary half is session, the place you sit down and perceive the utility, perceive the depot.
The second piece is your design and your set up—you dig up the bottom and you set the chargers in.
The third bullet is the {hardware}—we do enterprise with about six OEM {hardware} firms. And to us, it’s a buyer’s alternative. We’ll give them what we really feel like are some good options primarily based on the facility ranges that they want. Whenever you speak to EO Charging, you’re not speaking to ABB, Heliox or Siemens—you’re speaking to all of them as a result of we’re hardware-agnostic.
The fourth piece is the software program. And this is part of the stack that’s actually necessary that folks neglect. The software program is your fourth bullet, then your fifth bullet is upkeep “Oh, wow. You imply it’s a must to preserve the chargers?” Nicely, you want to preserve your automobile, proper? So, completely.
After which the final piece, and possibly a very powerful piece now we have, is a technical operations middle [TOC]. If in case you have a mobile phone, there’s a technical operations middle that’s resetting your telephone all day lengthy, and also you don’t even realize it. That’s what we’re in a position to do—we will see that charger within the floor.
We’ll do components of the stack a la carte. The one factor we is not going to decouple is the software program and the upkeep. For those who choose a software program supplier and a separate upkeep supplier, then it’s two completely different telephone calls. That’s what clients are annoyed with. One telephone name for that full stack—design it for me, put it within the floor, give me the {hardware}, preserve it for me for 10 years—that’s the answer they’re in search of, and that’s what we do.
One among our unique buyers was an organization referred to as Amazon, and so they demanded 99% uptime. And that’s what we provide clients. You possibly can ask Amazon, “Inform me about EO, and inform me about your uptime,” and so they’d say it’s 99.7. They’ll let you know that, not us—they’re a really demanding buyer.
“We’ll do components of the stack a la carte. The one factor we is not going to decouple is the software program and the upkeep.”
Depot chargers are dependable, aren’t they?
Charged: Charger reliability is a scandal, and I strongly suspect that loads of the issues are as a result of there is likely to be half a dozen firms and organizations concerned with a venture.
John Walsh: You’ve hit the nail on the pinnacle. We do accomplice with sure clients or sure firms. For engineering, we would accomplice with somebody. I’ll accomplice on the high of the stack, however as soon as it’s within the floor, it’s all me. It’s my software program, it’s my upkeep, it’s my TOC, and that’s the important thing to reliability that everybody’s complaining about.
Charged: Now, I do know you don’t do public charging, you solely do fleet depot charging. I’m guessing the latter doesn’t have as many challenges with reliability. Am I proper?
John Walsh: No.It’s simply as dangerous. I’m sorry to report that reliability with depot chargers is about the identical as with public. I used to be as soon as at an APTA [American Public Transportation Association] assembly—all transit companies—and I requested them, “Who has 90% reliability at your depots? Who has 80% reliability?” It was after I received to 70% and 60% that folks began elevating their arms. It’s not a quantity that we’re making up.
If we go to a buyer and so they say, “We’ve received three completely different manufacturers of chargers on this huge depot as a result of we purchased them at completely different instances, and we ended up shopping for ABB, Siemens and Heliox,” we are saying we don’t care. They could have to have a look at three screens. They’ve three completely different software program packages and three completely different upkeep programs. With us, it’s all on one display screen. I believe that’s actually what our secret sauce is, and that’s the most important promoting level of our firm—the {hardware} is agnostic to the software program, and we’re in a position to see the whole lot in a single spot from an operations middle.
“I’m sorry to report that reliability with depot chargers is about the identical as with public. I as soon as requested a bunch of transit companies about reliability at their depots, and it was solely after I received to 70% and 60% that folks began elevating their arms.”
For these about to affect
Charged: How about some handy-dandy suggestions for fleet operators? What are a few of the issues that may go fallacious, and the way can they keep away from them?
John Walsh: The one you hear probably the most is “You have to pay money for your utility yesterday.” And to me, that’s a broad reply. What does that imply? Once I attain the utility, what do I ask them? There’s so many fleet operators, large, large firms, that simply don’t know what to do.
What’s the distinction between a UPS facility and an Amazon facility? They’re most likely 50 years aside. UPS, they’ve been round for an extended, very long time, in order that they have buildings that they by no means thought they might electrify. Then you might have Amazon—most of their buildings are model new, and they’re making ready for electrification. So, the error I believe will get made is, should you take UPS for example, they’re going to say, “We received 100 vans. We’ve to cost all of them. We’ve received one megawatt of energy coming into the constructing. We want 5.” And they’re going to instantly contact that utility, as a result of that’s what everybody tells them to do, and inform them, “I want 4 megawatts extra energy.” And that’s whenever you hear everyone busting out laughing behind the room.
Nicely, they don’t essentially want as a lot energy as they suppose. We do loads of modeling for purchasers. “That is what number of automobiles now we have. That is the power storage on board, and that is how a lot energy now we have on the depot.” We mannequin for them the scale charger they want, however we additionally assist them handle the power as soon as it comes into the constructing. I ship it in two completely different instructions. I ship it to the ability conveyor belts, and I ship it to the chargers, however I’m not going to cost these EVs all day lengthy. I’m going to cost them at particular instances of night time at a sure energy degree.
Don’t over-capitalize the venture. Do your homework and take into consideration how a lot energy you actually need into that facility. You’ll be able to work with the utility on that, but in addition work with firms like EO that can assist you determine that piece out so that you don’t spend a bunch of cash—and I’m speaking tens of millions of {dollars}—to place energy right into a constructing that you just’re by no means going to make use of. That’s most likely the most important mistake I’ve seen in doing 200 deployments on the depot facet.
If we hear a buyer say, “Nicely, we’re simply doing a pilot,” we are saying, “Okay, however the place do you go from there?” They are saying, “I’m going to do 10 buses, and I’m going to do 10 chargers, and let’s see the way it goes.” That’s actually not a good suggestion. What we’re doing loads of proper now with clients that did that 10 years in the past, we’re ripping the whole lot out—rip and substitute. Now, the know-how’s modified, I’ll provide you with that. However on the similar time, they actually didn’t do a correct job of setting themselves as much as scale.
There was a transit authority up in Canada that constructed a brand-new facility, 400 buses underneath one roof. They knew from the start they had been going to cost 400 buses, however they solely did 60 to start with. However the facility, the lanes had been arrange so they may simply add the chargers as they went alongside. The whole lot within the facility was able to go. Planning for scale is one thing that’s tremendous, tremendous necessary.
“Fleets don’t essentially want as a lot energy as they suppose. Don’t over-capitalize the venture. Work with firms like EO that can assist you determine that out so that you don’t spend a bunch of cash to place energy right into a constructing that you just’re by no means going to make use of.”
Charged: I believe (I’ve a suspicious thoughts about this stuff) that 10 years in the past, a few of these fleets thought, “We received a authorities grant, so we’ll do a pilot, and that’ll fulfill the greenies, after which we’ll return to enterprise as regular.”
John Walsh: That’s proper. I believe that’s precisely what they had been considering. Is it political? It may be in some instances the place now we have to take care of a authorities mandate. What I really like about Florida, there’s so many purchasers which might be going electrical that don’t should. One of many first electrical fleets within the US was Star Metro, the transit authority in Tallahassee, and people buses function on Florida State’s campus. Now, these buses, 14 years in the past, they solely went 30 miles on a single cost. How did they handle that? They used en route charging. Nicely, at the moment, on an electrical bus, you may go 250 miles. Now, their chargers are on the depot, like a daily fueling station. They refill at night time, and so they run all day lengthy.
Cost your fleet for one month-to-month payment
Charged: You provide a whole turnkey service for a month-to-month fee. How does that work?
John Walsh: We’ll bundle our Stage 2 charger with the software program, the upkeep, the technical operations middle, and cost one month-to-month payment—it’s $59. That bundle is de facto enticing to loads of fleet clients.
We provide a month-to-month fee by charger, by kilowatt-hour, or by mile. A buyer can select their program, as a result of their wants range. Some clients have loads of idle time. Some clients are placing loads of miles on the market. Some are charging and discharging fairly a bit as effectively. I’ve DHL in New York Metropolis, and so they say, “We don’t want loads of batteries on our vans, as a result of, in your complete day, we would go 20 miles,” as a result of they’re caught in site visitors in Manhattan. That’s completely different from any person in Kansas that is likely to be operating a great distance. So, we wish to give these choices to clients and allow them to select.
Charged: Are there some conditions the place a buyer assumes they’re going to want DC quick chargers, however they can get by with the Stage 2 and keep away from a few of the procurement bottlenecks?
John Walsh: Yeah, that’s precisely what occurs. We’ve our personal charger referred to as the Genius Fleet, which is a Stage 2 charger, 19.2 kilowatts. We really feel prefer it matches with loads of fleet clients as a result of they’re going to make use of a Rivian van or a Ford E-Transit that has roughly 100 kWh of storage on board. The scale of the charger is de facto enticing—you don’t should get right into a Stage 3, which may be very costly. And the neat factor concerning the Genius is now we have them in stock. There’s no ready on switchgear or charger {hardware}. If a buyer says, “I want 10 chargers,” we will ship them inside 24 hours. We’ve them warehoused across the nation.
We make our personal Stage 2 charger in Europe, however the one now we have right here within the US is made for us by IoTecha. After which on the DC charger facet, ZEROVA, Kempower, ABB, a number of of those producers, whenever you see our label on it, it’s a must to stroll across the again of the charger to see that it’s any person else’s. We try this simply from a branding standpoint, however once more, we’re agnostic to the {hardware}. So long as it’s OCPP 1.6-compliant and we get good service from them, we’re comfortable.
The standard questions on traits
Charged: Persons are predicting a wave of consolidation within the EVSE {hardware} market. There’s loads of firms, and a few them just lately went belly-up: Tritium, Freewire.
John Walsh: I believe it’s a pattern. There’s completely going to be consolidation. With fleet, faculty bus and transit, that {hardware} has to fulfill Purchase America requirements. That signifies that that charger needs to be inbuilt the USA, and it has to have 70% US content material. That shrinks down the variety of firms. Lately, you most likely noticed that Siemens purchased out Heliox. We predict that’s a very good factor as a result of we predict Heliox has a extremely good product and actually good service.
Are there too many charger firms? I don’t know that there’s ever an excessive amount of of something. I might say we’d like the suitable variety of charger producers that construct good merchandise and may service their merchandise. And that’s the place EO is available in on the service and upkeep facet. However I believe consolidation is totally going to occur.
Charged: How far alongside are we with the Megawatt Charging System?
John Walsh: We’ve a bunch of them within the floor. We provide a 1.44-megawatt charging system, and I adore it as a result of it’s possibly half the scale of a van, and it matches within the nook of the depot. I can cost 40 automobiles on one charger, and I can put in a 60 kW, a 150 kW output. I can combine and match it for a buyer, which is very nice. It’s a cost-saver, it’s simpler to keep up, and it permits a buyer to essentially scale as a result of they put that within the nook of a depot, after which they’ll add one other one and one other one, and so they can actually get their entire fleet electrified with out chargers taking over house.
Charged: So, MCS permits you not solely to cost one automobile at a super-high price, however it lets you break up that up. Is that one thing you may’t do with CCS?
John Walsh: You’ll be able to, however you’re restricted—let’s say you are taking a 150 kW charger, you may put two dispensers on it, however that’s all you are able to do. On this one MCS charger, I can put 40 dispensers, and I can cost concurrently or sequentially. It actually provides you versatility.
Charged: What about V2G? Is it nonetheless a pilot-stage know-how, or have you learnt of some industrial functions?
John Walsh: We’re partnering with BorgWarner on V2G. I do know them rather well as a result of they acquired Rhombus, which was one in all our companions at Proterra. They do have the know-how, however it’s nonetheless very a lot in a pilot stage. The college bus market actually needs it, and so they need it at scale. I believe V2G will get pushed by the client. Dwelling right here in Florida, if now we have a storm and the electrical energy goes down, effectively, I’ve received an influence station proper right here—we’ve received 1,000 faculty buses sitting there stuffed with power. I simply should have the aptitude to tug it off that bus and into one other automobile or a facility. However I nonetheless suppose it’s in pilot—I can’t provide you with an instance of a industrial software the place I’m seeing it at scale but.
